In this conversation, Naomi Janzen shares her personal journey of discovering EFT and how it transformed her life. She initially dismissed tapping as ridiculous but later turned to it during a period of severe depression. After just a week of tapping for two hours a day, she experienced a profound shift and a sense of joy and lightness. Naomi emphasizes the importance of addressing the deep stuff in the body that talk therapy alone cannot reach. She also highlights the individual nature of healing and the need for self-tapping to reinforce the work done in sessions. Naomi's story serves as an inspiration for others seeking healing through EFT.

Takeaways

• EFT can bring about profound shifts and transformation in a relatively short period of time.
• Tapping addresses the deep stuff in the body that talk therapy alone cannot reach.
• Healing is not a linear process and setbacks are a natural part of the journey.
• Self-tapping is important for reinforcing the work done in sessions and can lead to lasting change.
• EFT is an individualized approach, and the amount of tapping required varies depending on the person and the issue being addressed.

Chapters

00:00 Naomi's Introduction to EFT

09:30 Transformation from Depression to Joy

25:40 Tapping and the Body-Mind Connection

28:58 Navigating Setbacks on the Healing Journey

32:46 The Power of Self-Tapping

39:53 Individualized Healing with EFT

Keywords: EFT, tapping, depression, trauma, self-soothing, healing, transformation

This is unedited.

Dr Peta Stapleton (00:00.962)
Naomi, thank you so much for giving me your time today and having a chat about all things in the fourth wave. I know you're probably the most excited person like me in this space. So if you don't mind sharing, I really like to ask everyone how they first found EFT. I think everyone's stories are so unique and I'm really keen for everyone to hear your story as well. But how did you find EFT? How did it come into your life?

Naomi Janzen (00:31.629)
Well, actually the very first exposure to it was my, had a birthday weekend with a lot of my friends there in Cambria in the United States on the coast. And I have this friend who's kind of like, calls, she sort of calls me or she is we exchange the King's Taster. So she'll try different things and say, no, have to try this. You have to try this. You have to try

And she tried to introduce me to tapping. And I remember we were standing out on the bluffs overlooking the ocean. And she said, there's this really cool thing. And it looked ridiculous because she didn't know what she's doing. she, and she didn't preface it with anything. And there was no science back then. So all she was doing was like tapping on her face. And I just thought that looks like the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. This is not one of those things I'm going to be picking up and running with. So cut to.

how many years later was it? probably, I don't know, five, maybe five years later, I had moved to Australia for a relationship. There's two reasons people moved to Australia from North America, work and relationship. Okay. This was not work. I turned down a million dollar a year.

Dr Peta Stapleton (01:45.25)
What's that?

Naomi Janzen (01:54.573)
That was literally the offer on the table to be the show runner on a show called Regenesis in Toronto, because I was moving to Australia for love, wasn't I? And it took me six months because I had two dogs and they had to go through the whole rigmarole with that and the shots and the different things. And not to mention how expensive it was to do all of those things. And this was right around the time when the world was the 08 crash. So this was at the end of 07.

Dr Peta Stapleton (02:03.254)
You were.

Naomi Janzen (02:23.878)
And it feels like five minutes after my plane touchdown in Sydney, the relationship ended.

Dr Peta Stapleton (02:32.664)
well.

Naomi Janzen (02:34.137)
And I was in absolute shock. had never, first I was embarrassed. I just felt embarrassed. There'd been a big party for me in Los Angeles of like, off she goes. And I was, so I was in shock. It kind of had all the hallmarks of trauma basically. Isolated. I had to live in his house for four months while he started dating his ex

Dr Peta Stapleton (03:00.17)
Dr Peta Stapleton (03:03.994)
no!

Naomi Janzen (03:04.405)
Now, just to, because I want to give myself a little bit, I need to, I need to amp up my credibility here. We'd been in a relationship for about a year and a half and we'd been back and forth and we had renovated his house together so I could move in. Like this was not Naomi moving to Australia on a

Dr Peta Stapleton (03:19.766)
No, so there was a lot of planning and kind of certainty in the relationship.

Naomi Janzen (03:24.919)
There was a lot of certainty and he'd even offered to marry me if necessary so that I could work in Australia, but it wasn't necessary because I was able to get citizenship by descent because my mother was Australian. So anyway, went to see a doctor about the severe depression and the doctor said, your depression is understandable in light of what's happened to you by the time.

I actually kicks in or you find the right one, it's going to be three months down the line anyway, you'd be fine by then. Well, I wasn't fine by then. So a year and a half later, was still, I was well, and I learned about depression because I hadn't really known what depression was before then. I was really truly angry to be alive every morning when I woke up. Never contemplated ending my life, but did wish for it.

You know, it was, and I'm not making light of that, by any means, I'm just saying that, when I explained my story to people, want them to know how, how strongly I felt that I didn't want to be here as obviously the butt of the joke of the universe. Like I felt like there's some cosmic audience rolling around in the aisles. Like, look what we did to her. was like the ultimate slip on a banana peel. And so I, and I was, I had been journaling. I've got so many journals because I was

filling the pages with just, how do I let him know what he did to me? Just the obsessive thinking, the physical pain, the physical pain in my body, anyone who's ever been depressed will maybe identify with, that was a surprising aspect of it. And I had had really wonderful talk therapy

in my late 20s with a woman named Dr. Aline Lapierre, and she's the author of the book Healing Developmental Trauma. And was really lucky to have her. She started out with bodywork and then progressed to, she was kind of going through her clinical practicum and so on and said, we can't do the bodywork anymore because that's not like legit enough, because she had come from primal scream therapy originally and all this kind of stuff. And now she's moved into somatic work. So it's full circle.

Naomi Janzen (05:46.413)
So I had had kind of an experience with somatic work and experienced how powerfully just working on one area of the body can make memories pop up. So I'd had that experience. And also she gave me a toolbox. So as I'm journaling in my depression, I'm asking, what would Aileen ask me? Because she taught me the kinds of inquiry, the kinds of questions, the kinds of reframe, which sharpened my journal writing and helped me understand that I was dealing with grief.

and anger. Those were the two main emotions. And after about a year and a half of struggling and different things, I had tried mindfulness, meditation, all of the journaling, all of the things I could think of. Nothing was working for longer than like a day, a day and a half. And I finally admitted to my three best friends in North America, one in LA, one in San Francisco, one in Toronto. We all got together on a Zoom.

And they were trilling about all the things going on in their lives. And then Naomi, it's your turn. And I just thought, can't lie. I wouldn't, I don't want to be here. And they were like, yay, come back to North America. I said, no, I don't want to be on planet earth. And they were like, if you've ever seen three people look like they want to jump through a computer. They all went into all hands on deck, all stations manned. One of them said, come back to the California. That's obviously the solution. The other one said,

Dr Peta Stapleton (06:51.95)
gonna fear

Naomi Janzen (07:13.697)
get yourself on antidepressants. And then the third one said, Laura, so the one, the King's Taster that we exchange roles with, she said, you've got to do this tapping thing. And I thought that sounded the easiest. Now I was willing to go on antidepressants. That would have been next.

But I had known a lot of people on it that had had issues getting off it. And so it was kind of like one of those, if I really, really need to, but I'm going to try to find other ways first. By the way, and also I had tried the lifestyle changes. I'd done all of the things that are recommended. And she sent me Gary Craig's original manual. She said, I will always. I will always, for legacy reasons.

Dr Peta Stapleton (07:55.124)
wow, we still have confidence in that. Yes.

Naomi Janzen (08:03.341)
She made me promise and because I promised, I read it. It took three days because I had no energy and I would read and then collapse into a heap and cry. And then the next day, I promised her, read, da da, cry, read. And then it was like, well, I've finished reading it now. I guess I have to do it. So, well, I guess I'll try memorizing the sort of this thing called the full basic recipe. And it took me 10 minutes. It was a lot quicker than I thought. I thought it would take days.

And, but as I'm doing it, I literally felt a change because all of the journaling and everything that I had done had kind of corralled everything into these emotions. And it taught me how to work on core beliefs and childhood experiences. So I was really effective at it. And also I wanted to mention the early work with Aileen because that kind of was like in a weird way, part of working with a practitioner in helping you target what you tap on and just not randomly

So two hours a day, which I only did because it felt good, not because I was motivated, because when you're depressed, you don't have any motivation, not because I thought there would be any long -term effect, just because I found time in the morning, time in the evening, just to kind of make this pain go away for an hour. And then it was to my great surprise that halfway through like hour 13 or 14 or something, my depression fell off me like a slab of a mountain falling away.

Dr Peta Stapleton (09:30.168)
Wow.

Naomi Janzen (09:31.767)
Have you had that experience where something just shifts in a quarter of a second?

Dr Peta Stapleton (09:33.7)
Yes, it shifts. Yeah, I've had that happen with sciatica pain. And I can still remember it to this day. I was, yeah, sitting in a chair and it literally was a 15 out of 10 because the nerve had got trapped when I was pregnant with one of the babies and it left and I was like, where did it go? It was different days.

Naomi Janzen (09:40.107)
Wow.

Naomi Janzen (09:56.619)
It's disorienting!

Dr Peta Stapleton (09:59.746)
Wow. So you're about what seven days into just doing two hours a day tapping about a

Naomi Janzen (10:05.247)
Yep. I don't know if it was like five days, six days, seven days. I know it was a week because that's what I kind of remember flagging. Wow, that took a week. And I had a trip to Los Angeles planned for two weeks, hence that I had been dreading because when you're depressed, happy things make it worse. nothing I had tried had made me feel happy for longer than a day and a half. So as the trip approached, I started feeling like I'm not depressed.

I felt like I was actually floating. felt, it's the analogy I give is when you're carrying something really heavy and you put it down, your arms kind of float up. My whole being was floating up. I felt like I was walking on a cushion of air. I felt joyful. I felt light. I had none of the same, I was sleeping through the night. I wasn't having those ruminations and those circular thoughts and the anger and the grief were gone. And I started to kind of think, well, maybe I'll enjoy myself on this trip, but I was kind

Dr Peta Stapleton (11:03.946)
Mm. Mm.

Naomi Janzen (11:04.075)
bracing myself for it to all come back. And halfway through the trip, it didn't come back. It hadn't come back and it never has. And I was, I can actually enjoy this. So I was talking to a friend at lunch and telling her excitedly about this thing called EFT. And I said, I feel like it's dialed me back to the pre moving to Australia me. And she said, I remember so clearly we're sitting at the Crab Shack in Pasadena and she shook her head and she goes, no.

I've been watching you for the last hour. You're dialed back to the you when I first met you before my disastrous marriage.

Dr Peta Stapleton (11:42.595)
I've got like goosebumps all over my body right now.

Naomi Janzen (11:44.909)
Right? And I thought, my God, she's right. It's like, I realized that I'd had a really difficult 10 years. And I hadn't even, because you know, you're just kind of keep on keeping on. You don't even realize how it's piling up. And this big catastrophic life event kind of, it was the thing that got all the attention. But the reality is that there had been a big lead up and in seven days of tapping.

And then I became just interested in tapping. was just like, hey, something's wrong. Want to try this new thing? Yeah. I don't know how it works or why it works. No, it isn't woo or it is woo, but who cares? It doesn't seem to matter if you believe in that or not.

Dr Peta Stapleton (12:31.7)
for the go. my goodness. And so Laura, who was the person that obviously did the original kind of invitation, like how, what did she say? Or was she like, yeah, I knew that would help you.

Naomi Janzen (12:45.265)
absolutely. She did. And actually Laura is, do you know the game, Balderdash? She co -invented Balderdash. Yeah. Laura's big time. Laura is, she's a goer. She likes to, she's an inventor and, and, likes to try lots and lots of different things. And, and then I ended up tapping with her lots of times. In fact, I tapped with her about,

Dr Peta Stapleton (12:53.484)
Yes. wow. Laura's like big time.

Naomi Janzen (13:15.499)
maybe it was about a year and a half ago, she fell off her bike and I FaceTimed her and the bruises, unbelievable. And she looked like she'd been in a fight. had two black eyes because she had gone over the handlebars. And I said, can we tap please? Cause let's just tap right now. And so we tapped for maybe about an hour and by the

her bruises didn't look as bad. And I'm thinking that's my imagination or the lights changed or something, but she'd no longer had the shame because she wasn't wearing a helmet. So she had a lot of shame about that. And then the actual act of the experience of falling over the handlebars, the experience of hitting the sidewalk, all that stuff we tap on all the different sort of experiential aspects of the body.

were really important and she texted me afterwards. goes, I just walked downstairs to watch a movie with my family and everybody gasped when I walked into the room because they didn't know I'd been tapping. They just didn't understand why my bruising was about 50 % gone.

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:22.392)
Wow, we could just go a whole nother layer. we know. So if we fast forward however many years, you embrace tapping so much that you obviously trained in it, became a trainer yourself, full disclosure, do trainings for our company. But obviously embraced it and did a whole life shift here and said, I wanna help other people. I wanna make that decision to kind of, obviously become so skilled in it that.

Naomi Janzen (14:25.367)
I know, I know, I'm thinking.

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:52.332)
I can now change other people's lives. Like how long was that process?

Naomi Janzen (14:55.713)
Well, it started immediately. went to a meeting at the ABC for a series that I was pitching. And one of the executives there was talking about like neck hurting from coming back long flight, whatever. And I tried to stay fixated on the pitch because all I wanted to do is tap with her. And I met up with her in the parking garage after I just saw her walking towards her car and I said,

And she's a goer, she likes trying different things. I've later found out as I've gotten to know her. And I said, let's, do you want to try this thing? And she was like, okay. And we kind of stepped off to beside the elevators and we did a little tap and she was like, that's amazing. That's amazing. So when I went back home and friends calling, Hey, how'd the pitch go? I'm like, yeah, it was fine. I got to tap with the executive in the parking lot and I fixed, she had like a sore neck. So that's the kind of thing I was doing

naturally going into sharing it, I was tapping on everything that came up for me. Will it work on this? Will it work on that? Will it work on this? So as that began to happen, I began to lose interest in writing for television, which is a little bit tricky because I was on the board of the Writers Guild of Australia, and which is a, I had been invited onto the board. It was one of my best experiences in the industry, in the entertainment industry, and certainly in Australia.

And I didn't feel congruent with it anymore because I felt like I want to do this tapping thing and I'm turning down jobs being like script producer and things like that, which I didn't understand. And I was in a state of total panic about what I was doing because I had a mortgage. So I'm like, what am I doing? So in a way, it wasn't a predetermined pathway. It's not like I decided there was no pathway back then. There were a few.

sort of bright lights, assumed they were making money at it, you know, the tapping solution people and everybody sort of in the tapping world summit. But I was feeling myself drawn towards this just by that follow your bliss thing. What am I interested in doing? And the, I was dating somebody who, found out that Jenny Johnson was coming for like, for the first time, you know, Sydney going to do a training.

Naomi Janzen (17:12.961)
And I think he was just trying to impress me by, look, I'm really actually getting into this new, this thing that you love. And he goes, let's do this training. And I thought that's four months away and we just started dating. That's a, that's kind of a taking a big risk, but I thought, what the heck? Let's just do it halfway through that training. I'm like, I'm going to be a practitioner. I'm going to do that whole accreditation certification thing. my God. And then halfway. when I was the second I was done with that, it was

And now here's the expert level. And I was like, my God, I'm going to do that too.

None of it was pre -org, none of it was pre sort of premeditated at all. And then as soon as I finished that, I was invited, would you like to be a trainer? And that was for EFT universe. my God, I'm going to be a trainer. And at that point I thought, okay, this is a career. I better get serious about how to set this up as a career. And there were resources. The expert industry was starting to blossom online and I took kind of the courses to support

doing it as a career, because I'd only done that other thing. so continued to just, and I'm still learning all the time from other people. as new research comes out and new information and even just like the trauma training was kind of considered this,

Dr Peta Stapleton (18:22.553)
Yeah.

Naomi Janzen (18:44.221)
sort of bonus add -on thing that some people did. And now we understand that it's not optional anymore being trauma informed as an EFT practitioner and so on. So I love how the field is constantly evolving.

Dr Peta Stapleton (18:50.008)
Mm.

Dr Peta Stapleton (18:57.188)
Amazing. And given, you know, you have experienced talk -based therapy and even with a somatic element. So obviously, you know, your therapist was embracing that even way back then. And now EFT, how do you see this? you know, positioned in the fourth wave kind of, you know, we're really talking about somatic body -based, you know, EMDR included in that. Like, how do you see this as different? You now work with clients.

full practice, obviously the training is there as well, but working with people at that personal level, that individual level, how do you see this different to perhaps what you had experienced as, you know, talk, even developmental talk -based therapy, that kind of thing.

Naomi Janzen (19:45.281)
Well, I think that the simplest explanation is that they address and communicate with different parts of our brain. And talk therapy, I mean, the word cognitive is in one of the modalities, cognitive behavioral therapy is very much kind of introducing you to reframes, introducing you to what's another way you could look at this, that kind of idea, which can be very valuable.

because just the same way someone who's a really good advice friend, you know, can really kind of give you those aha moments that can shift your perspective. And that can be really valuable. What I find though, is that doesn't touch the sides of the deep stuff in the body. And so the part of our brain, you know, the limbic system and then the, the amygdala, the reptile brain, the primitive part of the brain, even emotionally, when you have an understanding,

about in so it's the triune brain. You've got the prefrontal cortex, which is I think where the reframes land. Sometimes that impacts the emotional, but sometimes it doesn't. And then, and it sort of never I have to say I don't think ever impacts at the deep sort of level of the reptile brain, the amygdala fight or flight. just don't think it just, I say to people never in the history of humankind has calmed

worked saying to someone calm down. doesn't work. Exactly. Yes. So you could, could fake it, but you're not actually going to feel calm. And so I find that what EFT does is when people come to EFT with experience with talk therapy, it's on one hand, it's, it's a, it's an advantage because the person is already

Dr Peta Stapleton (21:15.49)
Calm down. Particularly in the height of that kind of level of distress.

Naomi Janzen (21:40.585)
interested in self -work. They haven't been pushed into EFT sessions by the partner that says, you need to fix yourself, you know, with somebody who's actually going, I'm on a self -work journey. I want to discover what makes me tick. And the disadvantage can be that they've got some preconceived ideas about what their issues are. It doesn't take very long though, to just kind of say, okay, with this particular way of working, I want you to listen to what your body says, listen to those spontaneous kind

thoughts and ideas and fragments of memory that may pop up. So basically what the difference is, I think they can all work together. And I think that there's a place for all of them, depending on what the different things that you're working on are and at what level the triggers happen, the events that happened earlier in life. And I think that

And when I was working with Aileen, I just remember once she was doing deep tissue massage as part of the body work and she had her thing, her thumbs almost inside my foot. And she had just told me, while I do this, I just want you to tell me whatever pops up for you. And I suddenly had the image of the door of our family car. And I told

And she said, okay, tell me more about that. What else are you seeing? And I said, well, I'm realizing I'm kind of, it's not kind of down below. It's not down low. It's kind of up high. And I said, so I must be small. And she said, okay, tell me more. So she's still working on my foot. And suddenly this, this is what happens in tapping, right? So suddenly this whole memory of when I was four years old, jumping out of the car on a hot summer day,

I was sitting on my mother's lap because, you know, back in the day, they had never been actually clicked closed in their entire life. They were like underneath the car, probably underneath the seats. I had been sitting on her lap and I jumped out of the car and my bare feet landed right in something the neighbor's dog had done. And my mother ran upstairs screaming, don't come up the stairs, don't come up the stairs.

Dr Peta Stapleton (23:37.11)
No seatbelts.

Naomi Janzen (24:03.653)
So I'm running down the alleyway with full of gravel trying to drag my feet to kind of clean. That was traumatic for my little four -year -old self. And that memory was stored in my foot and I had not thought of that since the minute it happened. So that was kind of the beginning and a few of those different experiences. Then she said to me at one point after she'd been working, I worked with her for two years, once a month for two years or once a week, sorry, for two years. And I remember her saying to me at one

I think you have a lot of anger at your mother. Now that's something talk therapy does. EFT would never do that. We wait for the client to kind of volunteer that information, but she was right. And so it really helped me to kind of realize I'd never thought of myself as having any anger at all, which is a little problem when you realize you've probably experienced anger twice in your whole entire life. You might want to look at that.

And so she helped me do that and explore in terms of the family dynamic and what was your dad like and siblings and your place in the family and those kinds of things. Does that answer the question?

Dr Peta Stapleton (25:13.912)
Yeah, absolutely. And it explains to anyone listening in that perhaps even has just gone for a routine massage, even a relaxation massage. And whilst you may have been lying there, perhaps thought of something that you might've thought was random at the time. Yet we do have this body of research and science now that explains why certain memories might be stored not in the brain level, but throughout the bodies. And that's kind of, you know, a whole separate.

sort of conversation, but it does explain why people might kind of go, when I had that massage or someone touched me there on the shoulder, I suddenly thought of that. And yeah, absolutely perfect explanation as to why that happens. So now working with clients with this particular modality, what kind of outcomes do clients report? So your story, is that typical? Is that what people experience?

when they go through a session, whether it's for depression or anything else, is that typical what you went through? Is that how clients feel as well?

Naomi Janzen (26:16.839)
Nothing is typical. That's kind of one of the things that I've discovered. It really depends on everyone's individual journey. But that experience of having something shift suddenly is quite common, I will say. It's quite common. And I have had this happen a number of times with clients where either we're working on that final piece of something or it just, it's cumulative.

And suddenly we've worked on enough where they describe the same thing. and I had, cause I give homework when appropriate for clients and tapping homework and half of them do it and half say, I'd rather just pay you to hold my hand, which is totally fine. I'm all, I'm no judgment, but the w but in cases where that massive shift happens when I'm not present, it's like in the next session or I get an email saying, my God, this just happened to me, which is very similar.

where they're just tap, tap, tapping, doing their homework, and then suddenly a state change that happens in a fraction of a second. And everybody expresses it sort of the same way. And I think that one of the things that I've noticed is that, and I tell my clients this, healing is not a straight line. You don't heal on a graph, this straight line where you kind of improve on a steady. It tends to go,

And for anybody, I don't know how to describe this for people listening and not looking at the video, but it kind of, go improve and then you tick down a little bit and then you keep improving and then you tick down a little bit and keep improving. And I find it's that way in so many other ways in life that they're almost kind of like, it's like a little reset, a little setback slash reset and then forward. And what's happening maybe in tapping is that you, you, something comes up, you clear it, you feel better. And then

another layer. And so it's experienced as, I've gone backwards when really you haven't, you've just tapped into another layer that's ready to come up. And you think about all the things that humans do. I talk about it as like contractions and, and it's how we release everything. And so it can be that, but it, can also be where,

Naomi Janzen (28:43.573)
The client, when I start working with clients, we talk about the apex effect, which is where you kind of don't give tapping the credit for how you better you feel. And boy, I'm sure you've got some stories too.

Dr Peta Stapleton (28:56.669)
Yes, decades.

Naomi Janzen (28:58.517)
I mean, where people just, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the tapping and you're like, deep breaths. yeah, I know. it's still, why do you, why is there this push to discount the tapping? But what I, when I work with clients on, I used to do this program. I don't have time for it right now, but it was really satisfying. Any practitioners listening to this, please offer this for your clients. It was a transform program was twice a week for three months. So they commit to

Dr Peta Stapleton (29:05.016)
You weren't doing anything else.

Naomi Janzen (29:27.681)
And the first thing I would do is give them a kind of a quality of life questionnaire and tell them to record themselves, video themselves on their computer, their phone or whatever, answering those questions and then put that away and don't look at it for three months. And then at the end of the work, I'm gonna give you the same questionnaire, you're gonna record yourself again and now you'll be able to look at the old video and the new video side by side and people's socks are knocked

Dr Peta Stapleton (29:55.256)
That's fantastic. It's almost journaling and looking back at your journals, but super kind of sized so that you can actually see the video and your expressions, your demeanor. Wow. wow. I hope people listening go and do

Naomi Janzen (30:10.103)
Because I can see it as the practitioner. It's like light comes into their face. Everything kind of lifts their posture changes. Their perspective is different. But the way I think of it is because what you're doing is actually becoming more you. It doesn't feel strange enough for you to go, this must be the tapping. Because you're actually returning to kind of your default setting of how you're supposed to be. And so I thought by doing this video

It must have been divine inspiration because I don't know why I thought of doing that. I didn't get the idea from anybody. I just had knew from working with clients that I want them to see the change I see side by side. And the emails that I would get or when I would see the person next, it would be, they always say the same thing. One of them is, I had no idea how much I had changed. Number two, I feel so sorry for him or

Dr Peta Stapleton (31:07.938)
that sense of compassion, self -compassion, isn't it? That just naturally kind of emerges. And even in facial expressions, know, stress, and if we just talk about stress, meaning, you know, lots of things here, pain, well as distress and trauma, shows in the face. So the research has caught up, thank goodness, to what practitioners knew decades ago, that, you know, cortisol is highly affected, reduced by tapping, and that will show in the face.

that will show us that relaxed demeanor and, you know, sense of calmness.

Naomi Janzen (31:42.797)
Yeah, and the reframes on the perspective shifts and not to mention, you know, an important element, which is that, well, I had one client once, one of the things she wanted to work on was she thought she was drinking way too much. I think she was doing a bottle of wine a night or something like that. And, and she was doing this transform program. And I remember that after, I think it was probably session number 18 or something like that. She said, Hey.

I just realized yesterday that I haven't had a drink in three weeks or even thought about

Dr Peta Stapleton (32:20.684)
And she'd kind of forgotten that aspect.

Naomi Janzen (32:22.733)
She had literally forgotten and she said, and we haven't even tapped on my drinking. And I said, that's all we've been tapping on. We were working on childhood abuse. And so when people come to work with an addiction, for example, any kind of, we'll call it an excessive behavior, and some excessive behaviors are more damaging to our lives than others.

Dr Peta Stapleton (32:31.65)
Rohan,

Naomi Janzen (32:46.231)
collecting figurines probably isn't going to impact your life as much as a gambling addiction, for example, but it comes from the same place. It's an urge to self -soothe. And with EFT, we work on what are you self -soothing?

Dr Peta Stapleton (33:00.716)
Amazing. Can I, I want to go, I want to circle back just to something you mentioned in your story, but ask you if this is necessary for anyone listening in that sort of says, look, I want to embrace this. I want to give this a go. You talked about that you were tapping purely because time that you had available and perhaps, you know, you didn't have much energy to do anything else. An hour in the morning, an hour at night. So two hours a day. That's a fair amount of tapping. And then obviously after

what is quite a short period of time a week, you felt that enormous shift in quite a heavy level of symptomology, know, depression or even diagnosis. Is it necessary to tap that much on your own to get a shift? What do you find is a sweet spot with clients? Is it okay to just work with a practitioner in session and not do your own work outside? But if someone's listening in saying, well, how much do I need to tap to

Get a shift. What is important in this space?

Naomi Janzen (34:02.123)
Yeah, really good question because I get asked a lot, how much tapping isn't going to take, you know, and it's how long is a piece of string, which is a horrible way to answer a question, it's true because, it really depends on what you're working on. Are you working on, you know, like, a really kind of, maybe you're angry about something that was said, you know, that's really sort of

I'm angry about the, for example, I had a client who was angry about the way she was let go from a job. And really all of her issues were about the anger about the way she was let go of the job. And I have this scale I always call what is the reason for the reaction. If the reason equals the reaction, work on what that reason is. And the way she'd been let go of the job, know, in the circumstances was something that

was justifiable that she would have this anger for a couple of years later. So it didn't take very long, I think two hours of tapping to work on that particular thing. But what we often find is that if the reason is not up to the level of the reaction, that means we got to go back further for a reason. And so you might have to go back to anger about something that happened, a rejection that happened in high school, and then that goes even back further to an early childhood experience.

the more sort of places that you have to go and the more complex the particular problem is, you can think of it as how deep do the roots go, the more time it can take just because it takes time to address all of the different events and their aspects. But I like to remind people that with EFT, you're able to make permanent changes, shift your state,

fundamentally in some cases on things that there is no other modality that could help you. You might be talking about it in therapy, no matter how good the therapist is for 20 years and still kind of not move the needle. You've just learned to manage your symptoms, but you've still got that deep triggering. That's still kind of the way that you're built. so

Naomi Janzen (36:21.737)
I had one client that had a lot of trauma in her childhood and we were doing two one and a half hour sessions a week for a year. And that seems like a lot if you think EFT is a one minute wonder. But with a client like this that had multiple kind of addictions and as a result of all the traumas and anxieties and core beliefs and things like that, and lots of adult experiences that had happened as a result of what had happened as a child,

There was a lot to work through, but the improvement kept happening. And finally, she was kind of ready to stop after a year, made all these positive changes, all these measurable changes, and felt like ready to kind of just live life. And then she's come back periodically for just those little one -off sessions when something flares up, but she also knows how to tap on her own. that's kind of

opposite ends of the spectrum. And in terms of self -tapping, I do think it's really important. I tell people it's like, I'm a dentist where I can take care of a cavity, but you need to have a toothbrush and a toothpaste to take home, you know? And if it seems like a lot of time that I was spending that twice a day for an hour, it wasn't a full hour. It might've been 45 minutes in the morning and then an hour and 15 in the evening.

If that seems like a long time, it's important to remember that I had physical pain in my body. The way I described it, I felt like I had a cloud of rotating barbed wire around my

Dr Peta Stapleton (38:01.503)
wow. Any practitioner these days hearing that would just...

Naomi Janzen (38:04.493)
jumping on it, jumping it too bad. It's, legacy. It's, it's been gone for 15, 17 years, something like that. But it was like that. And, and, and the tapping as I tapped made that go away and then it would come back in between. But, there was a thing that, that I was doing also

was in that original manual, you remember remainder tapping where you're out in the world and you get triggered and that would happen to me and I would just pick a tapping point and I always liked my collarbone point. And you would just say this remaining anger, this remaining anger, this remaining anger. And in the amount of time literally that that took me to say that, my thoughts would shift from the angry thought

Should I go pick up my dry cleaning after I go to the grocery store or before? Like literally, it would derail that thought. And so I was just doing that level of self -tapping as well. And I just tell people, the more self -tapping you can do on your own, if that two hours a day seems like a lot, about how much other, think of how much time you spend doing other self -soothing things. Ask your phone how much time you spend looking

social media and YouTube videos. And if you want to focus on working something that you're actively trying to take care of, then it's worth spending the time. you know, doing it the right way is going to give you a more effective result. And there's so many resources out there from getting trained to reading books about it, your books. Someday I'll finish my book.

Dr Peta Stapleton (39:22.338)
Yes,

Dr Peta Stapleton (39:47.406)
That was on my question, Liz. Stay tuned everyone, there is a book coming from Naomi. There's three, two or three books and I've seen the titles, so don't worry. We'll stay on Naomi to get those

Naomi Janzen (39:50.709)
I'm sorry.

Three of

They're half finished. Actually, the book, the very first one, which I started years ago, was tap, it was called, it is, and it will be called Tapping Out of Depression, Even When You Barely Care Enough to Try. And what happened was when I was starting to write that book, the general belief was that depression cannot be helped with EFT. And my book was partly, well, I beg to differ.

But I wanted to give people and what the book will be is a roadmap showing this is exactly what I did. If you follow these steps yourself, you might be one of the people that can clear your depression in the way I cleared mine with this particular way. And then all of the research started coming out, starting to talk about how DFT can be effective for depression. And so I put a pause on the book because I wanted

let the research kind of catch up. thought, now we have to be responsible about how we talk about EFT. And what I'm doing now as I'm getting back into it to finish it is realizing I have to revise a lot of it because when I started it, there wasn't all the research. I'm not going to try to talk about all the research, but I definitely want to point to the sources where people can get that information. And I want to make sure that, I mean, I'm an evidence -based EFT practitioner.

Naomi Janzen (41:21.663)
I now understand so much about what's going on in the body when we do tapping. so I do, my references are gonna change in the way that I write about

Dr Peta Stapleton (41:32.42)
Perfect timing for the book. Research is finally catching up to everyone's experiences, but I think we can't wait to see that because I do think the lived experience offers another layer, doesn't it? And speaks to someone out there who can relate and people want to share in that. And obviously the gift of tapping in this fourth wave might actually be part of someone's healing journey as well.

Naomi, there's so many more things I want to ask you, but I'm going to have to put pause on it and come back to it another time because I think we could talk about so many things. This has been just absolutely a gift listening to your story and in this way, just about what you went through, but how it literally not only changed your life, but changed your journey as to what you now offer other people. All of Naomi's details are below, including the book that you mentioned from

your original therapist. We want to thank Laura who's out there and we hope that she hears this one day because she was the one who, we always have that person, you know, I have my Alan who offered me EFT and you have Laura and we want to acknowledge them as well because otherwise who knows whether these tools may have come across our path. So thank you so much for your offering today and your story as well and of course if anyone wants to get in touch with you all of your details are below as well. Thank you so much Naomi.

Naomi Janzen (42:49.345)
meant to be.

Naomi Janzen (42:59.105)
Thank you for having me.

Websites

https://www.naomijanzen.net/

https://www.ozfreedomtechniques.com/