In this episode, Tapas Fleming, a pioneer in the energy psychology field, shares her journey of developing the Tapas Acupressure Technique (TAT). She was inspired to create a simpler, faster, and cheaper way to help her clients overcome allergies. Through her exploration, she discovered specific acupuncture points that, when touched, improved the effectiveness of her treatments. This led her to develop the TAT pose, which involves touching specific points on the face and head. TAT is a powerful tool for healing emotional trauma and updating outdated beliefs and emotions. It can also be used to address intergenerational trauma.

Takeaways

• Tapas Fleming developed the Tapas Acupressure Technique (TAT) as a simpler, faster, and cheaper way to help clients overcome allergies.
• TAT involves touching specific acupuncture points on the face and head to improve the effectiveness of treatments.
• TAT is a powerful tool for healing emotional trauma and updating outdated beliefs and emotions.
• TAT can also be used to address intergenerational trauma and provide healing for ancestors.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background of Tapas Fleming

01:02 Development of the Tapas Acupressure Technique

03:43 Shift from Physical Allergies to Emotional Healing

10:11 TAT as a Tool for Addressing Intergenerational Trauma

18:13 The TAT Process and Soul Retrieval

25:18 Training and Mentoring in TAT

29:32 Spreading Awareness and the Impact of TAT 

Keywords: energy psychology, Tapas Acupressure Technique, acupuncture, allergies, emotional trauma, intergenerational trauma

This is unedited.

Peta Stapleton (00:02.77)

Welcome back everyone to another episode of the fourth wave in therapy. And I'm thrilled today and we've just been having a laugh about internet connections and software and technology and it's fabulous when it all works with the great Tapas Fleming. Now Tapas's full bio is below. Tapas is an absolute pioneer in the energy psychology field and we're going to dive deep today into why. Tapas, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom that I know you're about to share.

I know you started your journey at least somewhere in the early days as a licensed acupuncturist. So that's obviously where your career was taking you. But somewhere in, and this is some time ago now, developed obviously what we're going to talk about today, the TAT, the tapus acupressure technique. But how did that journey come about? Obviously, you know, we know in the EFT world, port field therapy, other tapping modalities.

acupuncture very much has a basis underneath all of that. But what was it that kind of led you to develop something that kind of combined not only acupuncture, but energy psychology? It was great, Peter, and thanks for having me. Well, I was very interested in healing allergies. So I learned NAET, non -heteropods allergy elimination technique. And I was an acupuncturist using that with my clients.

And I just wanted a really simpler, faster, cheaper way for them to get over allergies. So that was in the back of my mind all of the time. And I was just taking a nap on my big acupuncture table one day between clients. And this thought arrived that this particular acupuncture point is where all the meridians join and enter the brain.

and it's on this channel that goes down along the sides of the spine. It goes over the whole body. I thought, maybe if I added these two points just with touch, not with needles, into my treatments for my clients were coming to see me for allergies. It would make things go better. And sure enough, it did. Things went faster. So that was the track I was on. So I was changing and adjusting what I had learned.

Peta Stapleton (02:30.86)
had one client come in who said, I'm allergic to salt. And we thought, my God, how do you live with that? after I did this treatment on her and she said,

She said, actually right after, I've been in therapy for nine years. She was about 57. I was sexually abused in a bar and afterwards, every time I was given a bag of potato chips and it was like, my gosh, the salt, the potato chips and the trauma all became this one complex piece of information. This is not good for you.

So she said, this is the first time I can think of that entire time in my life. And I have no emotional charge on it. I went, my God. So that was actually an answer to my prayers, which were how come I keep getting into relationships with guys are just like my dad, even when I think they're not. I thought I learned, what's the problem?

So I realized when that happened with her that that wasn't an answer to my personal prayers for getting over emotional stuff. And that interested me actually more than physical allergies. So that was the start of things. That was my inspiration. And that was back in that probably happened in 92. I came up totally with TAT in 90. I think it 93, something like that. was totally unaware of.

happening at EFT, all those people. Yeah, and that probably was that time that, you know, some of those, and you know, the background kind of movement that was happening with, you know, thought field therapy, even kinesiology, that coming together, Gary Craig's EFT and all the rest paralleled all that TAT was being developed. And like you said, and for anyone where they might be just listening to the podcast and not physically seeing us,

Peta Stapleton (04:39.724)
The two points you were talking about were the start of the eyebrow, is that right? And perhaps the, no, you described it to me. Actually, yeah. I'll keep in mind listening only folks. So it is the two points are the same on both sides of the nose and it's about an eighth of an inch above the upper inner corner of each eye. So it's essentially right above the tear duct. Right. It's not up at the eyebrow. Yeah.

So those two points you said in acupuncture are where all the meridian lines come together, is that right? And then have that pathway through the brain. And then, so then what happened is I was showing this to one of my clients from that where Jane, said his little old Tai Chi master from China said to touch between and slightly above the eyebrows. So some people would call this the third eye area or.

It has different names. And then, so I added that in that made the treatments better. And then months later, a friend was showing me that the vision center of the brain is at the base of this, near the base of the skull and how important vision is to healing. And I thought, well, maybe I'll just put my other hand there and see what happens and things just, that's it. So the

So the hand at the back is so that the thumb is just above the hairline and the hand is centered. And in front, I use the thumb, the ring finger in the middle for the points just above the eyes and the middle finger just about a half inch above eyebrow level and midline. And that is the TAT pose. And I wrote a Dallas acupuncturist master about it who's been father to son master since the Han dynasty to say,

What is this? What's the story? Hoping for an explanation, he just sent me back a postcard saying, your personal discovery truly aligns with ancient knowledge. Wow. That must have been very validating. It was. He said, may your successful practice make you rich and happy. And I thought, best Chinese fortune ever. Thank you.

Peta Stapleton (07:03.03)
fantastic. It was super validating. Yeah. Yeah. I can and this was really, you know, it sounds like an inspired download that came to you. Yes, you had the background knowledge that was there in acupuncture, but then the allergy space and you've moved on from that. But this moment of kind of going, well, that and this and then I know you've got a protocol that

people follow and we absolutely encourage people to do your training to learn that. So all those details are below in the show notes. But that inspired download is a common thing that we hear in new modalities that do come into existence and then perhaps are tested and end up in a clinical guideline book somewhere or taught or whatever it might be. Like it's really, it's quite common. It's almost like it was that something you were looking for or you were just open in the moment and you think it just came in.

Well, that first, those first points just above the eye came after a nap. Interesting. I just woke up with the thought of this professor saying, saying that. So it was really my looking for what my looking for how can I help my patients faster and how in the way background, how can I quit dating guys who are just like what I

wanted to get away from in my dad. That's where my big question. Fantastic. And I hate to ask the question, but I'm hoping that that happens. We're along the line that that stopped. So it did. mean, tell me my understanding of TAT is that it uses chakra or energy points as well in the body or processes. Is that right with where intention is set if you're working through something?

No, I've got that wrong. So can you please let us know what it's about? Yeah, these points that are the TAT pose are the way I think of it now something like a USB or a Firewire place. I acupuncture points themselves are places of lower electrical resistance. So to me, it's places where information can just connect with your system. Okay.

Peta Stapleton (09:26.272)
And part of the TAT process these days, I also use the heart pose, palm over palm over the heart chakra, like midline near your heart, whichever palm on top and.

That's really it. And the intention doesn't have to be held in a potent kind of, I got to really concentrate kind of way. It's just, you're just seeing these statements. And for me, it's almost like a short program, you could say, but it's really giving new information to your entire system. And I think of our bodies as antenna for sending and receiving.

And so the field of all that is, is what we're talking to. And this can, if you want, bring us to intergenerational trauma, if you want to go there. If you have other questions first, we do not. No, I think that's a really great place to go because so much obviously has been shifting in the last decade with not only, you know, not what's wrong with you anymore, but what happened to you, but intergenerationally.

you know, the research giving a nod to, but what we know clinically in the field that that is being passed down through generations, through the epigenome, through, you know, role modeling, teaching all those things. that, yeah, people generations on are still struggling with what might've happened to, you know, ancestors. So no, I would love you to go there. So tell us about the intersect there of how this can be released. Yeah. So what

we can, if we consider our body as simply an antenna tuned into different whatever in the field, our ancestors pass along to us information, tune into this, tune into this and tune into that. And also information like these are the kind of things that hurt our family, including allergies, physical illness, we know this, right?

Peta Stapleton (11:36.706)
This is all accepted. And I certainly have worked with plenty of people whose grandparents have been in the war and there's just ways of feeling and ways that people's bodies are tense due to that. So I don't think that the information I used to think so is in the cells. I don't think so anymore. I think it's just tuned in. So in the TAT

protocol, the whole process, part of what we do that we love is we have an intention, this healing is on behalf of me, my whole family, all my ancestors, all beings involved, all beings who'd like to benefit. So we're simply making that intention. That's what we're, you could say, tuned into. That's what it's for whoever wants. So

Peta Stapleton (12:33.804)
we are changing and updating the information in our body, in our whole mind, our emotions, everything, by just using the steps, which are the steps of TAT while we're in the post. So it's like, we're just simply downloading our own thoughts and feelings too into our own system, like...

that happened basically, and you don't have to resonate, identify or connect with that anymore. So when we're saying it, it's on behalf of our own body, our own system, plus all the ancestors that experienced that. you know, like people from Ireland tend to have trouble with liver, right?

People with Jewish traditions, a lot that I've worked with have trouble with shock, which in Chinese medicine affects the heart. They have heart problems and then digestive problems. It's just a matter of being able to update information and it's wonderful. And the other thing that's amazing about it too is that we're not only updating the information of our people, ourselves, but

anyone involved. So whoever it was that hurt ancestors, our intent is to help them too. Recently, I've spent months working with someone from Mexico whose ancestors were a mix of Spanish and native people. So what happened to everyone in the remorse and shame of

people who did the damage to her ancestors is also included. So we're working with lots and lots of people all at once. And I often have clients who say things like, I just saw a whole line of women ancestors, thank me for this.

Peta Stapleton (14:48.286)
So yeah. It's it's quite phenomenal. I can imagine anyone listening in that perhaps is trained in other modalities is probably really curious at this point kind of going what do you mean? I might not have to kind of verbalise statements or you know acknowledge how I feel or that I can hold the TAT pose obviously at some level I'm guessing be open but I know there's a series of statements or intentions that we're talking about and that that

is what leads to the healing. Like I'm guessing someone might be thinking, one, where can I sign up and learn this? But two, is that all it takes? Like I'm just being devil's advocate here. Is that all it takes to have this like tell it? I'm happy for you to ask these questions for everybody. So the statements are the information that's needed so that

parts of your being are no longer identified with those times and places. So it's kind of like soul retrieval. You are simply delivering the information, like, which is saying that happened. I'm just saying the steps of TAT are very short, if everything that led up, this is actually what they are, everything that led up to resonating, identifying and connecting with this happened.

So say it's fear of being seen, it's really common. And then that happened, it's over and I no longer resonate, identify or connect with this. And so we're delivering essentially that same information to the parts of ourselves also, thanking parts for what they did for us and saying, hey, basically whatever it was you were in, bringing

just giving those parts information that you can connect with me in my present moment, in the here and now. So what the heck's going on that is so powerful is that parts of ourselves get stuck in those old times and places. Like my patient I was talking about, of her were still in the bar having been abused and eating a

Peta Stapleton (17:15.606)
having eaten some potato chips. And so those portions of our very self think they're still there. And all kinds of emotions of fear in relationships, can't eat salt, I can't trust men. I'm all alone in this. That's really super common in any trauma.

continually being generated from the part of our being that's stuck back in some other time and place. And just so all that happens with TAT is that we're delivering information to those lost parts of ourselves, you could say, in a sense, you could call it soul retrieval done the easy way. So just being in the TAT pose.

and delivering this information, all the parts of ourselves, get the information, go, okay, fine. I'm in the here and now, and that's it. So all the emotions that were generated in the then and there, no longer generated and all the beliefs are no longer generated. In the same way that if I said to Peter, hey,

meet me for lunch at the upcoming conference where we're gonna see each other and then I didn't show up five minutes late. She might be thinking, sorry, I didn't show up maybe 25 minutes late. She might start getting irritated like, do you think of me anyway, tapas? Geez, what about my time? So, and then maybe if one of our mutual friends.

came up to Pita who was then feeling pretty irritated and maybe angry toward me and said, my gosh, Tapas was in a car accident, she's in the hospital. Then every emotion that Pita had and all her thoughts would instantly change to compassion. So it isn't like the emotions of anger, frustration, the thoughts about what kind of jerk I was need to be dealt with.

Peta Stapleton (19:32.768)
It's just simply the new information that changes everything just like that. And that is what happens with TAT. That's a brilliant example that really shows we may not need to do anything because I'm just going to repeat that new information can change the state. And that's what TAT is doing is it's providing, I love that, that

I'm NLP trained in schema therapy and things like that where we talk about aspects and parts of ourselves that are in there as well. And they can be different ages or different time and place. And TAT is doing the whole lot at once that it's offering new information to all aspects that are there, which I think is brilliant. That's brilliant. And I'm like...

full credit to you back in the day when there was a heavily cognitive field that was, you know, in those decades, it still is, where you got this idea. And this is what I love about, you know, rogue clinicians that are out there at the cutting edge that go, I'm going to try this with a client and then I'm going to refine it. And then I'm going to, I'm going to run with it because it works. And that's, that's what why it

you know, I went searching in the back in the day as well myself that what's out there and how does it work? Is it a single session one and done or might this be a process for someone you're talking about your client you're working with from Mexico? Might it just be going at the client's pace? What comes up? One thing might lead to another. How does it look in therapy?

One of them is usually for an incident. Like the first person I talked about, that oversaw a dollar or two and was done with those years, that may happen. It also may take several sessions. You just don't know, but for the person I've been working with, whose family was from Mexico.

Peta Stapleton (21:47.974)
We've probably been working a couple times a week on just this, just different aspects of it for a couple of months or so because she's aware of both. Well, there's the whole aspect of inheriting this brouhaha or kind of sorceress, witch, whatever you call it, energy and way of living. That's a whole thing. And then there's how women

think of men and treat men and there's, there were just all these very different things. So sometimes it's that way. Sometimes it's, it's not like, sometimes it's just,

Peta Stapleton (22:34.002)
once and some huge things totally done. So you just don't know. And what strikes me though, and I remember a couple of decades ago when I learned this probably coming out and listening to Louise Hay on cassette players, you know, driving my car back back in the day, quite, quite kind of, you know, rebel -ish of me back then, was realizing that change doesn't have to take years. And

What strikes me about lots of modalities that we might call fourth wave or somatic body based approaches is that they do tend to be fairly rapid and fast compared to conventional, you know, perhaps just processing through talking and those styles of therapy that these modalities are really quite rapid and they last like I know, and I'd love to just segue a little bit.

for a moment into you've had clinical research that's being done on TAT. And I know that's been done in the weight loss area, which is my first baby as well. research has indicated that it worked in that space, didn't it? Yeah. They always end with saying more research needed. Yes. Totally. 100%.

And I'll link to those publications underneath in the show notes. So if anyone does want to see what was done, cause I know it was a course, was a program of sessions that was done, which is pretty standard in a clinical trial, but showed their exact weight loss, how it ended up, that kind of thing. And you had a comparison in that research, am I right? There was another therapy that it was compared to. It was compared to Qigong. Qigong, which I love. And then, yes.

me too. Then there's, I think talk therapy was included. It's another one. I remember that as well, because I did a bit of a summary myself in the science behind tapping of TAT for those, just to include some extra modalities that were in that space. Yeah, so absolutely, there has been some preliminary research that's been done there to show that it works. Yeah, I mean, if someone's listening in and

Peta Stapleton (24:50.028)
particularly from a clinical space going, well, I want to add something like this into my practice and working with clients. I mean, how long does it take for someone to learn TAT in order to be able to use it with clients or patients themselves? Just a few months. Yeah. So that's fabulous. Isn't it? It's fast. Yeah. It's fast. It's, it's uncomplicated, but there are things that happen.

with clients that you need to know how to deal with, of course, that aren't as simple as just read this piece of paper and have them do the post. Yeah, yeah. And to me, that supervision mentoring is the most valuable part of any training that you might go for three days or two days or whatever and learn something, but really then that capacity to be able to ask questions as you're using it to me.

I wish everybody commits to a mentoring supervision program after they do a training so that they can, yeah, when they come up against things like that, you know, reach out, ask trainers yourself, that type of thing. And I am going to include, obviously, if someone does want to do a training and go and learn this, the details are all below in the show notes so that we can, we can send everybody your way. think what excites me the most, Tafis, that

There's so many things on offer out there that clinically the field shows patient, client, after patient and client, is it getting these outcomes and the changes are staying, they're durable, they persist over time and it works, it works out there. I think that's what we're trying to kind of highlight here is there's a lot of stuff out there and learning these things even

to use yourself as a clinician, because we're not immune, are we, to what, whether we're on a screen or we're in person with someone, and HeartMath talks about the electromagnetic field of the heart and how you're affected by someone else's energy through that, we're affected, we should be using these ourselves as well if we might be triggered. I would hope I wouldn't be triggered like that example you gave me,

Peta Stapleton (27:12.494)
We are sometimes, aren't we? Like we're still human, even if we're using all the different tools that are available. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I do THL several times a week. Yeah. It's just because I want to feel more present, more free, more connected, more love, more in my heart. Yeah. Amazing.

And one last question, like I'm thinking of someone listing in who's brand new. there any areas, conditions, and I know, you know, mentoring supervision is absolutely going to help with this, but is there any area that it perhaps hasn't really worked for in all your decades of using it with clients? Is there anything that's contraindicated for anyone, you know, using this? I have very little experience with people who are

schizophrenic or seriously crazy. I don't know how to put it. I'm not trained in any of that language, but you know, any kind, any level of trauma is okay with this. I would recommend that certainly if a clinician listening, a trained psychotherapist clinician wants to use this with someone who has dissociative

identity disorder, that they should definitely consult the NR program and connect with other TAT certified professionals who have worked with people in that condition. And people have come out of that condition and integrated using TAT. So I know that's possible. That's the most like super serious condition I could name.

Fantastic. And again, that's that nod to connecting and having supervision with people that perhaps are licensed and working in those kind of areas, which are really complex. But the whole point of those conditions is integration. so happy to hear that. Thank you so much for sharing knowledge. And I really did want to put TAT front and center here in the podcast to bring more people in.

Peta Stapleton (29:32.302)
awareness to this technique and just how it can actually have an impact and, you know, help more people out there. And we want to spread the word about these particular modalities. And I'm so excited that you were able to share some of this and all the links are below, including you can connect with Tapas so that you can find out more and perhaps, you know, go and do some training and start to see how this might be another, another tool in the toolkit. think that toolkit should never stop expanding.

for any of us out there. So I'm so grateful for your time. Thank you, Peter. I'm so grateful that you decided to invite me and introduce a bunch more people to TAT. Thank you so much. Fantastic. Thanks, everyone.